The
Lazy Cowgirls # 1
This article originally appeared in NFH #17 in
the fall of 1989.
Just
Who Is Pat Todd, How Did He Get Two First Names, And Why Can't He Increase Productivity In
Female Cattle Handlers?
I suppose that by now
EVERYBODY should know at least something about the Lazy Cowgirls, like that they've
put out a pile of mondo impressive records featuring a sound that brings you back
to the days before hardcore when the best bands sounded raw and played with energy,
but they didn't forget about having some melody to go with the package.
Not that lead singer
Pat Todd claims a particularly huge fondness for those 1977 punk days: "Well,
see we like some of that stuff, but I wouldn't say we were giant 77 fans. We like
some of it, of course, but I think the American bands are much better and I don't
go in for that anthemic thing; a lot of that stuff hasn't aged very well. You
listen to Howlin' Wolf or the Rolling Stones or the Dolls or the Stooges, or the
Velvet Underground, those things have aged much better. I think a lot of the times
they didn't have the pretensions the 77 stuff did. Even though I liked the stuff
when it came out and I still have a lot of those records, I don't listen to a lot
of that anymore. I liked that stuff, but I don't like it as well as a lot of
other things. There's certain music that's a lot more timeless than that was, and
in the same style. Especially like the Stooges, the Dolls, the Ramones and the MC5.
I think their music lasts a lot longer. The lyrics aren't dated; it's still based
on real gutty, dirt-under-the-fingernails type music. I those bands lyrically are
more honest. Their lyrics were more about real life as opposed to being about some
big melodramatic thing. Also, I think a lot of those bands didn't have a very good sense
of humor. And I think a good band will be from real serious to real goofy in their songs.
There's gonna be a little bit of everything in their songs. Really great rock and
roll you can enjoy on a lot of levels.
"To me,
something really great is just about a person in life and it's really him...no, not
even him, because it could be a her, a person...the person's putting in a lot of
themselves, and they're interesting. I think a lot of people are very good, and
they're very sincere, but they're not very interesting. That doesn't mean they're
less people, but they aren't very good at that. Let's face it; any kind of rock and
roll, or book or movie, or anything like that on any level is kind of
entertainment. I mean, even if you get whipped, if you like it, it's entertainment.
So whatever it is, it's gotta be kind of interesting to you. That's entertainment.
There are a lot of bands that sing about the same things, but maybe one out of ten
are good. And I hope we are one of the good bands, but then that's up to everybody
themselves to decide."
The rest of the
Cowgirls are made up of Keith Telligman on bass, Allen Clark on drums and Doug
Phillips on guitar. Doug, Keith and Pat came west from their original base of
Vincennes, Indiana, with two other guys around 1981, but that band didn't work out,
so they got Allen to come out in 1983 and assembled the current lineup. Gigs
started in 1984, and the band began steadily building a following. Their sound,
based around the same principles as the Stooges and MC5, attracted people fed up
with the posing and hype of a lot of the underground scene. But did they know it
would succeed when they moved here? "No, of course no. I mean we were confident,
but you can't help but be scared when you come from a town of 20,000 people
completely different, across the other side of the United States, there's no doubt
that you're a little nervous at first. But we were ready to do it or we wouldn't
have moved in the first place. But it took a while, because we've never had any
help. None of the record companies have been hardly any help at all. They've never
really put out the money or the time to put any kind of push behind us at all. It's
all been done through ourselves. That's why it's taken us until the last two years
for people to know who we are."
Eventually they fell
in with the Flesheaters' Chris D., who had first caught them at a club called the
Cathay de Grande and later even played a few songs on stage with them. The end
result of this association was the first lp, cleverly entitled The Lazy Cowgirls
and released on Restless Records in 1985. Although Pat still stands by Chris
("he's one of the few people who's honest"), he also feels that the
production Chris provided on that first record was a big mistake. "I suppose
what I think about it is if it was somebody else I would probably like it. But it's
just not how we are. If someone likes it better than our other albums, that's fine,
they can, but that's not how we are. So they like us better that way than how we
really are. So that's what's wrong with that album, it's not how we really are.
It's completely wrong, and if we'd have known at the time...a month or two later we
hated it. I wouldn't say we hated it, but we strongly disliked it. It just wasn't
how we were. When things first started barely happening for us a little, and we got
in there and "we're gonna make a record" and we're just these yokels from
Indiana and we were just excited by the idea of finally getting to do something
after all this time putting all this work into being in a band, I think we just
weren't very smart at the time and I think we've learned from that a lot. And if
you'll notice the difference between that one and Tapping The Source even in
the cover it's like complete backlash to the left, which is what we really are.
There's been people who told me they like the first one best, and that's fine, but
they don't really like US because that's not how we are."
An important point to
make is that although that first lp wasn't what the band had in mind, and isn't as
good as their subsequent records, it's still a cool slab of vinyl. The sound makes
the band come off more like Paul Collin's Beat or the Plimsouls, although either
band would have to down handfuls of amphetamines to reach the required energy
level. There are some killer songs, too, like "Rock Of Gibraltar". Sadly,
it's getting harder and harder to find this one, so get looking quick, because the
day when this record commands collector prices probably isn't far off.
But if you really
want to hear the way Pat Todd means the Lazy Cowgirls to sound, you've gotta hear
1987's Tapping The Source lp on Bomp!. This one delivers the goods...it hits
like the first Ramones lp, but with a little more of a Stooges feel. Nearly
everybody who heard it became a believer, and the Cowgirls' star began to shine
brightly.
After a Bomp! single
with "Sock It To Me Santa" and "Goddamn Bottle" (one of their
best!), late 1987 produced an Australian-only release, the mini-lpThird Time’s The
Charm, which came out on Dave Laing's Grown Up Wrong label. This one has a
slightly flat sounding mix, but features several really great songs, including one,
"Losin' Your Mind", that stands with the best the Cowgirls have to offer.
Hot on the heels of this record was the live Radio Cowgirl lp, which caught
flack in some quarters for having too many covers and previously released tracks,
but the sound on this record corrects shortcomings in several previous efforts and
to my ears is the second most important Cowgirls disc after Tapping The Source.
Pat and I had the
telephone conversation that resulted in this interview in late June, shortly after
I'd seen the Lazy Cowgirls' show at the Music Machine (see insert box). As you
might expect from a transplant from rural Indiana, Pat's a guy with few of the
pretenses and hang-ups that seem to plague people from urban areas...he's friendly
and forthright and says what's on his mind. Hopefully this comes across in what
follows:
NFH: So how do
you feel you fit on the LA scene? You seem like you guys are all pretty realistic
and down to earth about what you're doing and there's so many bands that are on
this big trip and all that...
Pat: I don't
think we fit in with any scene particularly. Just by the fact that we're not from
here, our age, and the music we play...I mean we don't really fit in with hardcore
bands, we're not anything like that. I guess we don't fit in; I guess that's the
whole point. We don't go out of our way to do that, but we just don't fit in with
too many bands.
NFH: Well, you
may not fit in with them, but it seems like a lot of people who like what's
supposed to be cool around there like you a lot, too.
Pat: Yeah,
well we've got like THE best crowd in Los Angeles, there's no doubt about it, and
it's growing all the time. Really, all those people that were there (at their June
19 show at Music Machine) were mainly there to see us and that wasn't as crowded as
I thought it would be. I thought there'd be like another 100 people there. Mainly
we've got our crowd through word of mouth and playing. We've never really got too
much press until like the last year or two. But we've got most of our fans by
people telling their friends that there's a really great band, finally, you know. I
mean, I'm not being prejudiced, but that's what they say, that finally there's one
around that every time is good.
NFH: How long
have you been pulling crowds that are good sized?
Pat: I'd say
the last, almost two years, that we've been able to headline and sell out the clubs
and put our own shows together. We can name our show right now, so it's no problem.
But it's really been good like the last two years; we have a really good crowd, and
they always show up, We have people that drive down from Santa Barbara for every
show. And I'll tell you whether you like us or not, that's up to the person of
course, but we're really good every time.
NFH: I get the
impression you're having a lot of fun while you're playing as well.
Pat: Oh, yeah,
of course. It would be pointless to do it if you didn't have fun.
NFH: Well I
think a lot of people have fun while they're doing it but they don't show it.
Pat: Well, I
guess we know who we are and we're not really worried about looking hard-assed on
stage. It's all there for people to get. If they want to get it they can get it.
Like they can enjoy it on any level they want, just on noise level, rock level,
they can enjoy the words, they can enjoy the entertainment. When you get up there
you don't really think, you just do, and it's really fun. It's just a chance to
express yourself. Of course, we really have a lot of fun. I especially have a lot
of fun.
NFH: Well, I
don't think I've ever seen anybody look like they were having as good a time
playing in a band as you did that night.
Pat: Well that
wasn't even a great night...I'd say that's an 85% night that you saw, which is
good, but we're even a little bit better than that, I think. But the reason it's
always fun is that we're really consistent and we try really hard. We put ourselves
on the line every show. We're not out there to show how cool we are, like a lot of
bands nowadays in the "underground". We just do what we think is right
and all that kind of stuff.
NFH: Of the
labels you've been on, which has worked out the best for you?
Pat: Well, the
Australian thing, he's done a good job, but again, that was mainly only in
Australia; you don't see that out and around. Sympathy, for what it is, has been
great. That album has done really well and he's got the word out, but that's why he
got us. He wanted us to be his first record and we were already a certain amount
popular, so he would have a certain amount of sales guaranteed just by doing it. We
had that live radio show and it just worked out that he wanted us to be the first
thing he did.
NFH: Are you
doing any more stuff with him?
Pat: Yeah,
we're going to do a 7" ep with four songs that should be out any time within
the next two or three months. Also we're going to be a Sub Pop single of the month,
September the first. And then we're going to tour America in October or November,
and then we're going to tour Europe in April of 1990. We've already finalized that
thing. And then probably an album will be out in hopefully like January.
NFH: What do
you think about the situation with hardcore these days? It seems like that's sort
of dying out and people are looking around for what they ought to latch onto next.
Pat: Yeah,
well, as a whole, no one in the band is into hardcore. I mean, I'm sure hardcore is
like any other kind of rock and roll; there's a few good bands and mainly just a
bunch of stuff that's not any good. That's how I feel about rock and roll. But
generally we're not into it at all.
NFH: What kind
of stuff do you listen to?
Pat: I dunno;
we like your classics all the way from Hank Williams to Howlin' Wolf to the
Ramones, the Stooges and the Dolls. I guess we like all the things you're supposed
to like (laughs), but we really DO like them.
NFH: So you
tend to listen to more older things...
Pat: Yeah, but
only because there aren't that many...like of all the eras, there really aren't
that many good brand new records that I really want to spend my time with and that
it does something to me. When you have only a certain amount of time, which is all
I have with being in a band and writing and this and that, I want my listening time
to be as quality as possible. And I also want whatever the music is, and it doesn't
have to be old, it could be brand new, I want it to have some effect on me. I want
it to do something to me is what I'm trying to say. I mean it's not just now, it's
always been that way. There's been just bands here and there that I just got
something out of, that touched me, or made me feel something, you know, what rock
and roll is supposed to do. There's a lot of bands that I'll like their record and
of course it's better than Van Halen or whatever, but it doesn't inspire me much. I
may agree with it, or at least they like a good kind of music approach to what I
think's a bad kind of music. But that's of course a stupid way to say anything
because there's no such thing...something's good of everything. Is this coming
through? I just want music that does something to me.
Like a lot of the
bands from Australia? I LIKE some of it, and then a lot of it I like, but that's as
far as it goes, I wouldn't say it's really great or anything. Here's a good example
of what I'm trying to say. There's a million bands now that are Stooges influenced.
They like the Stooges. Well, they may sound like the Stooges, but it's just like an
Elvis Presley imitator. I mean they sound like them, and they have their hearts in
the right place, but they don't have any of the inspiration that made Williamson,
Pop, and Asheton that great.
NFH: One thing
I've noticed with the stuff that you do is that there's a handful of bands that do
this kind of stuff and make it come off well and it's like, if you try to learn how
to play their songs, they aren't very hard to play, but nobody seems to be able to
write those kinds of songs...
Pat: Well I'm
glad you think that, because I think that's what makes anything. Content is always
more important than anything else. Musically I could care less about being you
know, good...I mean we're a rock and roll band, so I don't think we're that
interested in musicianship. I mean it figures in a little bit with what we think is
good, but it doesn't matter to me how good you are, but what's inside you.
NFH: Well, I
guess I wasn't even thinking in terms of musicianship. If you sit down and write a
song...there are a lot of people who try to write these real basic energetic two
and a half minute songs where you just put together real simple chord combinations,
and lots of people do that and they end up with total shit for results.
Pat: Well,
maybe it's the way we are. For example, out of 10 songs I'd say maybe three make it
past our practices.
NFH: So you're
real selective with your own stuff.
Pat: Sure,
you've gotta be. I can only speak for what I believe in. But if we are any good,
one of the things that makes us good is that we believe strongly in what we do. I
believe that every time you do something you should put yourself on the line. It's
easy to say "Oh, I don't give a fuck, I don't care", that's the way most
people are in the underground and of course right there you let yourself off the
hook. But I think we do care. Maybe we're silly; a lot of people think that's silly
to even admit that you care about what you do, but then they're all in bands
putting out records. I think it's pretty evident that everybody cares what they do,
and it's just a defense mechanism. We try to do it as good as we can, including
writing songs. I think a lot of people the reason their songs are not very good, or
they're just OK, or they're just good, is because first of all they're afraid to
put anything really out of the inside of themselves in their songs. I'm not trying
to be pretentious, because I don't take myself that seriously, but if you didn't
put yourself in your songs, a lot of yourself, you wouldn't be any good. I believe
that all those bands I mentioned before they all put a lot into what they wrote. Do
you understand what I'm trying to say....I have a limited vocabulary; I always
say this in interviews (laughs), so they have to help me flesh it out and maybe
throw out a word...but that's how I feel, and I think that's maybe what separates
us from a lot of other bands. That we want to do what we want do, and we don't want
to sell ourselves short, and we're critical of what we do.
I'm the hardest
critic I've ever known. I mean, I don't hardly like anything. I mean, I don't want
to get into that, who I don't like, but I don't like hardly anything. And some of
the other members are the same way, so hopefully that's what sets us apart.
But I think that's
healthy in the long run, it may cause problems here and there, and like irritation,
but in the long run we all know that we're all represented by this; there's not
just one guy in the band.
NFH: Are you
pretty democratic about how you do things?
Pat: Yeah, I'd
say so. We try to be. If somebody really hates the song, we don't do it. If someone
has a strong dislike, we either redo it completely or we just don't do it.
Everybody has to be pleased with it to. I don't bend to do something I don't like to make
someone else happy. We find that place where we all like it. Which is why only 3
out of ten songs make it. Because someone else maybe pleased, but I won't be, or
vice versa.
Everybody puts some
stuff in; everybody has something to do with it. We try to keep it that way so
everybody likes what they're doing...everybody believes in what they're doing,
because you don't want someone that's disinterested. So that's why we try to keep
it that way, where everybody has a say and an input into it. There'll be songs
where one guy wrote it, but we still want to list it as everybody writing it,
because without everybody else, you couldn't have it.
NFH: I see
that most of your songs are credited to the whole band. How do you come up with new
songs?
Pat: We don't
have any real "this is how it is"; sometimes we might break in a song
that's almost completely arranged, or we may bring in a song with just like:
"Here's the chords, here's how it goes, here's the words" or one guy will
sing it to us. And then we add all the different things and say "Let's put a
new part in here", or "Let's change it" or "Let's drop it" or whatever.
Sometimes we'll come in with it completely arranged and everyone will love it,
sometimes it will be like the barest bones and everyone will love it, sometimes
it'll come in completely arranged and everyone will hate it. So there's no set way
for us. We try to leave it as open as possible.
NFH: Is that
what you guys spend a lot of time doing in practice?
Pat: Yeah, but
what we try to do is get 'em as finished as possible and bring them in and then go
from there and work on them. Because the more you have to work with the more you
can say "Oh, I don't like this part, but I like this part". You know, the
less time you spend goofing off. So I wouldn't say we spend most of our time in
practice (on new songs); it depends on the practice. Sometimes we might spend it
all on one or two songs. But most of the time we practice some old songs to warm up
and run through the newer stuff that we're still getting more familiar with, and
then work on anything new we've got after that. Or, if we're going to play a
show, we'll run through the set a few times and then work on some new stuff. If
we're gonna go on tour, then we'll spend a good two weeks with like three days a
week each time, going over the set, all the songs, so we're in good shape. It just
depends on what we've got coming up. If we're gonna record five songs, we're gonna
practice those five songs fairly strong ahead of time to make sure when we go in we
know what we're gonna do and how we're wanna do it. In other words it's just like
we practice in a common sense way; whatever we work on is what we practice.
NFH: How often
do you play a show in Los Angeles these days?
Pat: Well, we
used to play every month. But after the last tour we decided that was two much, so
we're now gonna try to play maybe six times a year, which is not much.
NFH: Is that
primarily to make it something special when you do it?
Pat: Of
course, and it just makes it better for everybody. Also, it's like when we play, by
then we'll have a few new songs; maybe we'll learn a cover just for one show, or
change a few songs from last time. Because you don't wanna burn yourself out or the
people. It's important I think to keep your batteries recharged, as everything; as
a band performing, as songwriting and doing everything. You've gotta keep yourself
as fresh as possible, so that means you don't want to play all the time, you wanna
make it something that everybody looks forward to that's involved.
NFH: So I
guess you guys all work to support yourself?
Pat: Sure, we
all do because, well, we really can't make enough money off the band. We might be
able to sometime in the future, but right now we can't.
NFH: Seems
like the only way to do that would be to play every single weekend.
Pat: Oh, yeah,
then we could easily, but that's what bands like the Ramones and everybody else do.
They play too much for the money and then what they do is not good. They're
worrying more about quantity than the quality.
NFH: It seems
that a lot of bands are realizing these days that it's bad to be dependent on their
music for their income because mixing money with music never seems to be a good
proposition.
Pat: Yeah, you
have to be very careful. That's the whole point of us being hard on ourselves. You
have to keep that in you. You have to pay attention to what you're doing: Am I
beginning to slip or be bullshit? I mean, that's the whole question. You have to be
able to know when you're starting to turn into bullshit and put a stop to it. As a
person, too. It's just common sense, it ain't no big deal.
NFH: Do you
feel like the Ramones have long ago slipped into bullshit?
Pat: Yeah,
especially live, because they haven't been good live for years. It's been purely
go-by-the-numbers, say the same shit, do the same songs. They don't sing hard, they don't
play hard. It's like they're going through the motions. Some of their albums
haven't been like that, but I think live they definitely are. You've gotta realize
and not lose perspective I think that's what happens to bands. Like the Rolling Stones,
look at them. They lost perspective years ago. They've been able to pull it out
once in a while for a few decent songs, but they haven't put out a good album since
1972, where it's like a really, really great record, and I think one of the reasons
is that they tour all the time, they worry about money too much, they're not in
touch with themselves, let alone the world, and they live these ridiculous lives,
and you've gotta stop yourself from turning into that. Now that doesn't mean that
it's easy, or that you can, it's easy for me to say that, but that's what makes
bands go bad. I think you have to know; I mean, I want to make as much money and be
as popular as we can while still doing what we want, but if it comes down to doing
something I don't want to do to make money, well then I'll just get a job. It's
more important for me to enjoy this; that's why I started out. I started playing music and
liking music because I really liked it. I didn't necessarily think of it like
"Oh, I can make a million dollars" or anything. People are gonna say I'm
goofy if they're really hard nosed, but I want to try to keep as much innocence in
rock and roll as possible. I think that's what's missing from a lot of the bands in
the underground or whatever you wanna call them, is that they don't really believe
in what they do. Maybe we're just silly enough to believe in it.
NFH: I often
wonder about that with bands that play stuff that is really lacking in melody and I
guess what you would call "experimental" music...
Pat: It's like
they're almost too smart for their own good. I think it's the point where you lose
heart and soul, but for me, maybe I'm not that damaged yet...I'm not that damaged
that that appeals to me that much.
NFH: Are you
big record collectors?
Pat: Well, we
are kind of, but we're not like collectors now, but we all have a lot of albums of
stuff that we've really liked over the years. We all like a pretty wide variety of
music. I'd say amongst us we like just about a little bit of everything. You could
just about name it and someone will like some of it. We all have a lot of records,
we all still listen to music, so I guess the answer to the question is yeah. But
all I'm trying to say is we're not like what you would call record collectors now,
which is nothing against them, but we're not like that; we don't go out and buy every
limited edition of everything. If we like it, though, we'll buy it.
NFH: When you
do "Green Acres" live it seems almost like a theme song...
Pat: Well,
people love for us to do "Green Acres" and "You're Gonna Miss Me"
as a medley. And we've been trying to stay away from it but since we hadn't played
for so long, we haven't played it for a while, so we were gonna do that. And then
they surprised me and did "Who Are Mystery Girls" as the second one. But
we never plan on an encore and we never practice "You're Gonna Miss Me" or
"Green Acres". We don't want it to become like that, but people want it
so much. Hopefully we're still really...well, I know we are...we're still really
spontaneous. We don't want to do the same thing over and over. We wanted to try to
keep our song selection halfway fresh. But a lot of people want to hear us do that.
NFH: Anything
else that ought to be said?
Pat: Well I
think we covered everything. Like I told you, I think that most of the bands, they
just don't have a lot of heart and soul, or even if they play something that I
think I kind of like their style, or I agree with what they're saying, they don't
move me. And that's the whole point. I remember when I heard records that I liked from
when I was a little kid to now, they inspired me, that's what I liked. It made me
want to play music or sing...that's what it did to me. And that's what we're trying
to do; that's the kind of music we all like. So whether we're doing it is all relative,
but that's kind of what got us going. We wanted to play music that did something to
us like the music we loved. Which I think is probably a pretty common thing, but I
just think that maybe we're succeeding. It seems like it; we sure get a lot of
people saying a lot of really good shit to us, like I've heard people say "It
gives me goose bumps" or "I can feel it" or whatever. So we seem to
have at least done something.
If you have any
instincts at all, you know what's false and what's true, even in yourself, and I
think I have decent instincts. Maybe I don't, but I think that we're accomplishing
what we want to do.
