Examplehead
The following article originally appeared in
Noise For Heroes #17 in the fall of 1989
The interview with
Examplehead that follows was based on a set of questions I mailed Bruce Griffiths at
Aberrant in January of this year. Bruce read the questions to Examplehead's bass player,
Jason Matheson. The questions credited to NFH are Bruce reading one of my questions. In
some cases Bruce interjected his own comments or questions, and these are credited to him.
Also appearing on the tape is a female voice whose name I do not know, but most of her
comments didn't get picked up well enough for me to understand them...
Examplehead have two
lps and a 45 out, all on Aberrant. The first lp, called Aheadofstyle, came out in
1986, while the single "White Horse" was released in late 1988. Their Powertools
lp came out this spring. Examplehead music is tough and tense. It's not hardcore, and
although it has a punk influence, it tends to be significantly more complex. Examplehead
lyrics are also provocative, tending to look at things from a perspective that the average
person commonly overlooks. Powertools in particular is an lp that is required
listening for readers of NFH.
NFH: Give us a
history of the band...when did you start, what were you trying to accomplish, where have
you played, what records have you made, what other bands have the members been in, when
did you first begin to play gigs and where, how were you accepted, etc., etc....
Jason: We started
approximately 3 years ago. At the very beginning I was sitting and trying to learn how to
play the bass guitar because I hadn't had any experience at all with musical instruments
up until that point. Only now have I learned how to properly tune a guitar, so it's taken
me 3 years to get this far.
We've played from the
garages of Ride to the hallowed halls of the St. James Tavern, the Sydney Cove Tavern, yes
we've played everywhere.
Bruce: But you've
never played outside of Sydney?
Jason: No, we almost
did once. We were supposed to go to Wollongong and play but we didn't, and it was lucky
that we didn't because it was a bloodbath.
Lionel has never been
in a band before Examplehead, I have never been in a band before Examplehead, neither had
Greg. Terry has been in a few bands, the most noteworthy being Amused, and the least
noteworthy Naughty Z Wax.
Bruce: When did you
first begin to play gigs and where?
Jason: When and
where? We first started to play gigs approximately three years ago. We didn't take that
long to get out of the garage and into the playing domain. Our first gig if I remember
correctly, was with the Trilobites at...what was the name of that pub?...the Lismore on
Pitt Street about three years ago. And look where the Trilobites are now, and look at us
(laughs).
Bruce: How were you
accepted?
Jason: The Trilobites
thought we were pretty good; I remember talking to the bass player of the Trilobites
afterwards and he liked my equipment was what he liked. I don't know if he liked the music
all that much, but he certainly liked my bass equipment and he wanted to buy it off me as
a matter of fact, if I remember correctly, but I said no way. Oh, that's right, he owes me
strings! He borrowed some strings off me one night when we were playing at the Picadilly
Hotel up at the Cross, he came running in 'cos they were doing a gig down the street. And
he came running in pouring with sweat and asked me if I had any strings, and I said
"Yeah, you can have these strings". And he never returned them, or the money, so
don't but Trilobites records, because they're basically dishonest (laughs).
NFH: What do you see
as the most important ingredients in music, not necessarily your own music?
Jason: A good solid
rhythm section, bass and drums. Once you've got that down you can pile any kind of shit
over the top of it you want, but bass and drums are always important.
NFH: What does rock
and roll mean to you?
Jason: (laughs) Rock
and roll...I don't know; it's the funniest world. The rock and roll world is the funniest
world. I mean, you have to deal with roadies to begin with, I mean if you've ever had any
experience with roadies you'll know and I'm doing a BA in roadies, I'm going to become one
in a band myself. I have to gain a roadie certificate. Rock and roll is the funniest
industry, because it's unlike anything else. There's tremendous egos to be overcome. I
dunno, but it's fun! At the same time it's fun...I can be critical of it, but at the same
time I'm in it, so there's kind of a funny...ambivalence there...that's a good word;
ambivalent. I'm very amphibious about it.
NFH: What do you get
out of being in a band?
Jason: Not much,
mate, not much. Hardly any money, but a tremendous amount of heartache. No, no...I dunno.
Examplehead, despite what a lot of people might say to you, can actually play their
instruments and sometimes, on the right night, we can play quite well. So I really enjoy
those nights when things are sounding good and going well for us, which is hardly ever,
but when we do get it together, like on our latest record Powertools...because when
we went into the studio at that stage we were well rehearsed and we played a lot of gigs
and so we went into the studio and we actually could play in time and do it well. So what
I get out of it is fun and pleasure. And sore ears, but that's the price you pay.
NFH: What do you feel
you give to the people who listen to your music?
Jason: I dunno, the
people who come to see us, they laugh, they cry, they kiss five bucks good-bye! (laughter)
Bruce: You stole that
from "Hardware Wars"!
Jason: Is that where
it came from? I think it's a good saying. What do we give the people? I dunno, we give
them everything. We give them sweat, we give them fun. I see one or two people having fun.
And actually, our name is in the girls toilets at the Evening Star Hotel. So there you go,
that's what we give them. We give them a tremendous amount of satisfaction in the toilet.
They feel compelled to write on the walls. I dunno, we give them what they want, I
suppose, is the old saying. We give the public what they want. Which is raucous loud
directionless music. True?
Bruce: You're
sounding very strange, are you doing this properly or not?
Jason: I am, I am,
I'm doing it properly!
NFH: What bands have
most influenced the way you look at music and why?
Jason: Well,
everything from Wire to the Damned, Magazine, Killing Joke. Reasons that I just stated
before; they have energy that may not necessarily combine with direction, but always
enjoyable and great to listen to and a sense of humor; that's what I always liked about
the Damned was their sense of humor. And I think Examplehead have a sense of humor. Or is
that a tumor? I dunno. As far as music is concerned, I tend to like everything as long as
it's not obviously poxy. A lot of different forms of music appeal to me...not just only
rock and roll, but other things. Such as things like Parker Bell and Wagner (pronounces it
with a "W" and laughs), (which is Vahg-nah) by the way...
Bruce: You're off the
label! (roars laughing)
Jason: Brings me to
tears all the time.
NFH: What are your
favorite current bands?
Jason: I like the
Celibate Rifles a lot. I didn't used to like them as much in the early days, but I think
as time goes on, they seem to get better and better. More refined, I think is what I'm
trying to say. And of course it was great fun to work with Kent in the studio. We had a
great time and I think he is in a large way responsible for the good production value of
the Powertools lp. Because he was very tolerant and he worked hard and we didn't
give him any money either, which was great.
Bruce: Well, you've
only named one band, are there any other favorite current bands?
Jason: Oh, current
bands, La Sect Rouge I like because they play slide guitar. I've only seen them once or
twice, but I'm always a sucker for slide guitar and there's not enough of it played.
There's not really a lot of good rock and roll bands left any more, don't ask me why. I've
been listening to a bit of Public Enemy, that's not too bad. I dunno, I've just been
listening to Public Enemy and Grace Jones lately if that means anything to anyone. I saw
King Snake Roost the other night. I can like them some nights and other nights I'm not too
crazy on them, but when they supported Sonic Youth the other night they were pretty good.
feedtime are good; same thing goes for feedtime; they could hit it off some nights and
other nights they weren't so good. Who else is there? I don't like a lot of bands in
Sydney, I'll put it that way, because there aren't too many bands in Sydney, which is what
I'm trying to say, that appeal. That you actually would go out and see.
NFH: What do you like
about the bands that you just said you liked?
Jason: Once
again..energy, humor.
Bruce: Kent wears
nice tights.
Jason: Uh, no, I
don't like Kent's tights at all.
Female voice:
Shocking!
Jason: They are,
they're shocking. I dunno. Who else did I say I like?
Bruce: He says you
look very nicely in your tights...
Jason: Does he? I
don't wear tights by the way. But tonight I just happen to have a pair on. What do I like
about them? I dunno, I dunno. It's nice to go and see bands just to stand there, and if
it's good and they're happening and everything is going well and it sounds good, then it's
great to be in the audience and just sit there and listen, without necessarily jumping
around like you've got some kind of disease. Another band thing about standing in crowds
is that people treadle all over your toes and all that kind of stuff. Which is one of the
good things about being in a band, by the way, because you're up on stage and you don't
have to mingle with the crowd. Sometimes it's pretty bad down there...I can see lots of
bad things happening. People treading on each others' toes and spilling beer on each other
and all that kind of stuff, and you tend to be spared such indignities up on stage.
NFH: I thought Aheadofstyle
was a pretty good batch of songs that could have been translated better to vinyl but Powertools
strikes me as an even better group of songs that just about jump off the turntable. Are
you happy with the results?
Jason: (In tone like
giving marriage vows) Yes, Bruce, I am.
Bruce: No, it's not
Bruce, it's Steve...
Jason: Oh, Steve, I'm
sorry. Are we doing a long distance thing?
Bruce: You are.
Jason: Powertools
is a good record. It is a good record, better than the first record. I can't even remember
what it was called now. It was called Aheadofstyle of course. Better for a few
reasons. The batch of songs was better. The band was better when we recorded it. We were
more confident, especially me, because I tended to know what I was doing at that stage
better than ever before. I think Kent captured a lot of good things about the band,
especially Lionel's guitar playing. That was one of the reasons why I asked Kent to do it
in the first place, because I think one of his great talents is getting a good guitar
sound out of it, and that's what certainly was lacking on the first record. Another thing
that made Powertools good is that we knew what we were doing in the studio. We had
a bit more knowledge because it was our second time around, and I think it was a bit of
fun doing it as well. I think we had a good time and so did everyone else who was there
to, Dave and all the other people.
NFH: How much of this
is due to Examplehead learning more about recording and playing (you've already answered
this) and how much is due to Kent Steedman's production? I've heard the results of Kent
producing San Francisco's Mr. T Experience, and I don't think he did much for them. Their
new record with him sounds just like their old one without him, and neither sounds like
the work of a great producer, so I tend to credit your improvement to the band.
Jason: Yes, I would
agree with that. The band itself...we seem to get better as time goes on, although some
people would tend to disagree...some people would say that we are falling into some kind
of wallowing mire of self pity or something like that. But I don't think that's true...I
think we're writing better songs. A lot of things about the band are much better than when
we first started; just our song writing ability, and of course as time goes on and you are
locked in a very small room with three other people you tend to fight a lot, laugh a lot,
and generally get to know each other a bit better, so there's that kind of communication
in the band that develops after a while. See, it's good me being here to do this interview
alone without any of the other band members here because I can say things without fear of
contradiction. But of course that's not to say that Kent's contribution to the album is
diminished in any way, because I think as I said before, he did a great job, but the thing
is that the band definitely did improve. And the record itself is more or less a live
recording; one or two takes. A couple of tracks have double tracked guitars, but by and
large it's just one or two takes, flat out.
NFH: Can you talk
about what inspired the songs "Drugs" and "White Horse"? The message
from these two feels so strong that is seems like they arise from some personal
experiences.
Jason: Both those
songs are kind of "do as we say" songs. The message is clear enough...
Bruce: What do you
mean "do as we say?"
Jason: Give up. Which
is one of the lines in "White Horse". The song "Drugs" is different to
"White Horse", whereas "White Horse" is more outwardly noticeable as
an anti-drug song, the song "Drugs" is more just an observation of people and a
sociological song as well in it's content. Just looking at everything from coffee right
through to cocaine, because everyone relies or seems to rely on something to get them
through the day. And like people who smoke cigarettes, especially from say a generation
ago, wouldn't have recognized cigarettes as being drugs, but of course they are. And the
same with coffee. Both those things have addictive qualities about them. And so the song
"Drugs" basically says what it says, that everybody's on drugs. Not saying that
everyone is hooked on heroin of course, but everyone needs some kind of drug to get them
through. Or as Huey Lewis might have said: I want a new drug called love, or something
like that. Even love is a drug as Bryan Ferry would put it.
Bruce: Do the
messages in those songs arise from personal experiences?
Jason: I'm not going
to tell you.
Bruce: All right.
Take two.
NFH: The song
"Preaching To Converted" from Aheadofstyle takes a pretty hard crack at
people doing political songs. Is the point that the songs are a waste of time, or that
people should move beyond just singing about things that bother them?
Jason: A lot of
people have asked us the same question about the same song, "Preaching To
Converted". It's one of Lionel's songs, and Lionel tends to be black and white about
a lot of things. You've got to understand Lionel before you can understand the song.
Lionel's not a fence sitter; he doesn't sit on the fence; he's either one side of an issue
or the other. So he takes a pretty hard crack at people writing political songs, because
basically he feels that given the circumstances and the surroundings and the influence of
the band that it wouldn't have a great affect. We were talking about the rock and roll
industry before; a lot of songs are sung by young misguided directionless people and
although the message may be clear, it has a tendency to be in the long run ineffectual,
and a lot of thought doesn't go into what is being sung and therefore the message tends to
be lost. Political songs in themselves aren't too bad. As Lionel said one day, if they
were effective, if they actually did change people's minds, then the government, the evil
"they", they would stop it; they would put an end to it. It's a hard song to
explain. It's a personal thing from Lionel, who tends to feel that there's no real
revolution. There might be a revolution in the pub or the club that you're playing in at
the time, for that hour or so and everyone's caught up in the hysteria of the moment, but
that's just one little corner of the world. And then you have to move outside and cope
once again with reality. And things continue exactly the same despite the rantings and
ravings of a lot of politically motivated bands. Plus, from my point of view, it tends to
become a bit of an ear bashing after a while. For me a lot of political songs don't seem
to fit in with the old "good time rock and roll" ideology, if you know what I
mean, that is, just about having a good time?
NFH: What do you feel
are some of the things people ought to be more concerned with and ought to act on?
Jason: People should
be more concerned with making themselves more aware; getting educated and getting smart in
the head. You know what I mean? Like improving your mind, getting educated, learning about
the world you live in and acting. Not necessarily in a horrible political sense, 'cos I'm
not a real political person myself, but just implementing changes in yourself. Because you
change from day to day. Just become aware of things, like the world that you live in. Like
you don't live in a vacuum, you know. You have to live with other people. The things you
say and do affect others, so you've gotta be thoughtful. Think about what you say. Even
though it may not sound like I think about what I say, but that's not to say that you
shouldn't. You should think about what you say and think about what you do. And there's no
need really to get out of your mind on drugs and drink and everything you know. I mean,
the world's a bad place, I know that. But it's not too bad, you know, there's certain
things in the world that aren't too bad. Like there's music and...I dunno. That's about
it...(laughs).
NFH: The song seems
to imply that meaningful change can only occur with violence...do you really believe that
it can't be an evolutionary process?
Jason: If you're
talking about changing things through music, probably not. The sphere of influence of rock
and roll when looked at in the global aspect, isn't that large, really. There's modes of
thought that are more desirable than some others, and that goes without saying. Like it's
better to be aware and smart than dumb and violent.
Bruce: Yeah, but the
question is can meaningful change only occur through violence?
Jason: The song
actually says that revolution only comes about through fighting and that's where things
change, but now we're getting down to my point of view now. It seems to have stirred up
quite a bit of controversy, amazingly enough. I'll have to tell Lionel this, cos it's
Lionel's song. But I think that things basically stay the same, because rock and roll
itself is run by a bunch of white males...
Bruce: Hi!
Jason: ...at the
exclusion, speaking in kind of a majority sense, of females, blacks, etc., etc. So
therefore, despite the fact that things change a lot, like we get older, days pass, etc.,
things seem to change bit in actual fact they don't. The rock and roll industry, and I'm
not talking about at an independent level, I'm talking about all levels, you know, like
major etc., etc., it won't change; it's not going to change because it's still being run
by a bunch of white businessmen and they're not going to surrender their grasp just
because a bunch of screaming teenagers jump up and down and say this is wrong and this is
wrong. Because they're down at the bottom and these other guys are right at the top. And
they're the ones who pull the strings.
Bruce: I think he
wants like a world view, not just change in rock and roll...
Jason: Well the same
goes with the world. You know, guys still finish school and go into business and women
finish school and get pregnant and then get married (laughs). You see what I mean? Things
may be changing, but like any change, if there is a change, it takes such a long time to
take affect.
NFH: Americans are
told next to nothing about what goes on in the outside world in our newspapers and TV so
we don't know much about what political life in Australia is all about...the stereotype is
that it is a comfortable little country with koalas and kangaroos everywhere; what issues
in Australian politics warrant angry reaction?
Jason: Well let me
just say this: the koalas have a disease called promidia which is a sexually transmitted
disease from humans. I don't know who has been fooling around with koalas, but he should
be closely watched! So that destroys the myth straight away, doesn't it? As for the
politics of Australia, my god, how would you put it? It's very corrupt, extremely corrupt
at all levels. Insipid politicians are extremely shallow and dumb. But the thing I'm
driving at is that in Australia we have this corrupt network of politicians and policemen
and businessmen, all arm in arm and corrupt as anything. But Australia has a way of
accepting corruption. We don't mind it too much. We tend to know that it exists, and it
goes on and on, but then suddenly it will become exposed like on one of those current
affairs shows at night, or it will become exposed in the newspapers, and it becomes like
the flavor of the month. But everyone knows that the corruption exists, but we tend be
very accepting of it in a lot of ways. That's one of the very strange aspects of living in
Australia. Maybe it comes from our early days as a nation because we are a convict
settlement kind of thing...we were kind of like an oversized prison for a great stage of
our history. It's not a bad place to live; it has its disadvantages like any other place.
But as far as the politicians are concerned, I don't know. But come and visit us anyway.
If you're in America you've got a great exchange rate on the dollar of course.
NFH: Do Australians
feel anger at US policies? Do people talk much about the US involvement in the Labor Party
government under Whitlam in the 70s?
Jason: People are
very pissed off with the American idea of a lot of things, you know, like the American
work ethic...it's such a strange place, America, I've been there and...how would you
describe it, it's like everything is fine, but it's not. There's poverty and all this kind
of stuff, and it's supposed to be the land of the free, and they say that slavery has been
abolished, but you know, slavery hasn't been abolished, no way. No way. As for American
involvement in Australia, from McDonald's to Pine Gap, it's not on really, because we
should be able to run our own business without being interfered with. As far as the
Whitlam government was concerned, it was quite a promising time in Australian political
history. What was it, 1972? I think he got sacked in 1974, the governor general sacked
him, which was the first time in political history. Whitlam was the promise of progressive
government, and perhaps that scared a lot of Americans. See that's the whole thing, you
don't know what went on, and I don't think anybody really knows what went on. I mean,
there was all these rumors of CIA involvement and paying off John Kerr, the governor
general. But because of the snidely way that American secret services are run, no one
knows what's going on, and I'm sure the CIA doesn't know what's going on either. But yeah,
Whitlam could have been a great time, because progressive government is something that's
sadly lacking know.
NFH: What kinds of
venues do you play at? How do audiences accept you? Do you have any following?
Jason: (Laughs) We
used to, but we scared them off. Americans don't really have the kind of system we have
here for music. Americans have a club system where you go along to clubs and you watch a
band. But here we have pubs and everyone drinks and watches a band, and we get paid by the
amount of alcohol that people drink. So if they drink a lot, we get paid a lot, (puts on a
tone of heightened hypocrisy) so we encourage our audience to drink...
Bruce: While singing
songs about not drinking...
Jason: We avidly
encourage them to drink while they are there, but secretly in the subliminal messages in
our songs, we're saying clean up your lives, you scumbags. We've been banned from a lot of
places; we don't play as much as we should because we're pretty lazy. But we're only three
years old; it'll be four years old in August. It's hard for you to imagine what the pub
scene is like here...we were talking about politics before; the pub scene here is run on a
reasonably unstable political kind of system...it's who you know and all that kind of
business. But we should play more, and I must investigate it.
Bruce: Why are you
banned from so many places?
Jason: I don't
know...people tend to take a dim view of the music, and I don't know if it's because the
music is frightening. I've had this theory that the music is confronting, and a lot of
people feel uncomfortable when they watch us because we're not like a lot of other bands,
which I think is where we run into difficulty. It's not that the music is violent or over
the top in any way, but it tends to unsettle people. I mean we've had owners of the places
we've played at go berserk for no reason. Sometimes when we first started we were a bit
outrageous and Greg our singer used to do silly things, but he's cooling down a bit as it
were. A lot of times when we play people don't know whether to clap or leave or stay or
whatever, but maybe as we grow older as a band, people will become more accepting of the
music. I hope so because we don't fit into a lot of circles that seem to run in Sydney. We
don't play a lot of guitar solos and we don't have a Stooges influences...see I'm
explaining what Examplehead is by telling you what we're not. It's complicated...four
twisted people in the band doesn't make for easy passage, but we'll get there.
NFH: What's the best
feeling you've ever gotten from playing live, and why? What's the worst?
Jason: The best
feeling is finishing when you're having a terrible night...no....doing shows in Sydney
with the Rifles is wonderful fun, it's always great. When things are going well for us and
we're playing loud and fast and tight and everything sounds good, that's when I like it,
and I can see the crowd's enjoying it. The worst times...we don't really have worst times.
I'm probably the most balanced person in the band, and the other people are extremely
unbalanced, and so they tend to have kind of a mental collapse, I suppose I should put it,
sometimes when we're playing and they may get really pissed off and all this kind of
stuff, but I tend to be more accepting of situation, but we have bad nights and all that
kind of stuff, and sometimes we play to a dozen people or something like that, but to me
that's all right. I don't mind doing things like that. But Examplehead's a good band, and
it's good fun to play in Examplehead.
NFH: Examplehead to
me seem to fit into the sort of music that a lot of punk bands played before hardcore
started. Several other Aberrant bands also fit that categorization. Here in the US, there
doesn't seem to be many people who like that sort of sound (which pisses me off because
that's what I like!)...they either go full tilt toward hardcore and thrash or they go for
a more pop sound. For example, Sister Ray play a similar sort of music, and they complain
that people just stand and look when they play. Is there a division like this in Australia
that allows bands like Examplehead to fall in a crack or does the presence of a fair
number of other like minded bands help?
Bruce: I just want to
say that I don't think Sister Ray sound in any way like Examplehead.
Jason: Well, there's
no one like Examplehead, I've said that before, and we do tend to suffer because of it.
Because we have problems fitting in. I'm not saying that we're the odd ones out, but we're
not like a lot of other bands, and as I've said that tends to unsettle a lot of people.
But there is a distinct type of sound in Sydney that dominates; the kind of song that goes
verse chorus verse chorus guitar solo verse chorus end, that's the kind of thing that's
happening at the moment with this Iggy Pop influence. I won't name names, because I'm not
a bitter and twisted person, but we haven't really formed an alliance with any other band.
I would've liked to, but it just doesn't seem to have happened. But we don't suffer from
it, because I don't think that we're in any great hurry to get where we're going, if that
makes any sense. We're just quite content to do the things we do at the moment, and look
forward to making more records in the future and maybe even touring your fair country one
day, that would be a lot of fun, but I think I'm dreaming, maybe somebody better prick me
with a pin. Oh, I didn't mean that the way it sounded!
NFH: What's in the
future for the band? Any more record plans, tours, etc.? How is Powertools being
received?
Jason: Powertools
hasn't been released yet so I can't say how it's been received. I hope it will be received
well, because it's a good record. I say that because I'm quite critical of music. I don't
like our first record (pause), but that doesn't mean you shouldn't go out and buy it. But
this record's pretty good, it's not bad. I'd like to take the band a bit further than
where we are now, but in good time. I want to make more records, you know, but as I said
before, sometimes the band feels like breaking up, but after everyone's head has cooled
down a bit we tend to drift back together again. So maybe one day I'd like to go on tour.
Yeah that'd be all right. So if you'd like to organize things at your end and give us a
call, maybe we'll see you at the end of the year or something like that, because we're
quite keen. More records, yeah. Powertools should go down well, because we had a
good combination of people, and we had influential people like Kent Steedman interested in
the band and pushing us along and encouraging us, and it would be silly for us to break up
now because we have a lot of people rooting for us as it were. Or routing, in keeping with
the imagery of Powertools.
