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Deniz Tek
The following feature is the result of an interview conducted by e-mail with Deniz in May of 1997.

I can’t imagine a reader of Noise For Heroes who doesn’t know of Radio Birdman. With the Saints, they were THE major figures of Australian rock and roll in the dawning of its independent scene in the late 1970s. Radio Birdman’s story has been told many times (including in these pages, but in the most detail in Vivien Johnson’s 1990 book Radio Birdman). Radio Birdman split up while on a tour in the UK in mid-1978. After the split, the various members returned to Australia and went in their own different directions. Noise For Heroes interviewed Deniz Tek to catch up with what he’s been doing since those days long ago.

Although Radio Birdman were an Australian band, Tek, who played guitar and wrote most of the songs for the band, is an American who came from Ann Arbor, Michigan, home of the Stooges. As a quick summary, Tek arrived in Sydney in 1972 to begin attending the University Of New South Wales. He pulled together a band called TV Jones, doing covers of Stooges and Alice Cooper songs along with some originals. Tek was the lead singer as well as lead guitar player in this group. TV Jones lasted a couple of years, and then in November of 1974 Tek and Pip Hoyle from TV Jones merged with Rob Younger, Warwick Gilbert, and Rob Younger from another Sydney band called the Rats, and Radio Birdman was formed.

Radio Birdman lasted until the disastrous tour of the UK, and their story is told elsewhere, so we won’t rehash it here. On returning to Australia in 1978, Tek, Hoyle and Ron Keely formed a new band called the Visitors, with Mark Sisto on vocals, and Steve Harris on bass. This band lasted about a year, and left behind a very good lps worth of songs entitled Visitation which wasn’t released until quite a few years later when Citadel finally pressed it up in the mid 1980s. It has subsequently been released on CD by Red Eye...a real important record for any Birdman fan to have, especially as it’s loaded with great tracks like "Brother John", "Haunted Road", "Living World" and "Sad TV", all of which could’ve been first rate Radio Birdman material but which in the Visitors’ hands mutate towards a bit of a Doors influenced sound, which though different is also excellent.

The Visitors last ever gig in August 1979 featured the Hitmen as opening act, the Visitors in the middle of the bill, and closing the night, for this one gig only, was the Comrades of War, a band that was almost a Radio Birdman reunion except that Mark Sisto and Johnny Kannis of the Hitmen sang instead of Rob Younger. This reunion was meant to be a send off for Deniz and Mark Sisto (who was from Detroit), both of whom were leaving for the states in the next couple days.

Not until February of 1981 was Tek to play in Australia again. When he did, it was with the Angie Pepper band. Pepper had previously fronted the excellent, some-what Blondie-sounding Passengers (they had a great single on Phantom in 1979 with "Face With No Name" / "Girlfriend’s Boyfriend"), and was trying to start a new band. Their set consisted of a handful of originals, a cover of the Rolling Stones "It’s Not Easy" and other covers from Shocking Blue, Joe Byrd and the Field Hippies, James Brown, Garland Jeffries and Captain Beefheart. The goal was to make an album, but the band lasted only 8 gigs and for a few short studio sessions. Two very good pop songs from these sessions were released in 1984 on a Citadel single ("Frozen World" / "Why Tell Me")

Prior to assembling her band, Pepper had been living in Detroit, but the good folks at the US immigration office had her sent back home to Australia. The idea for Tek’s next venture, the band New Race, began with her, and after some discussions over lunch between Pepper and Rob Younger the concept began to really take shape. Rob was keen to come up with a way to arrange a tour to complement the Australian release of the Living Eyes Radio Birdman album, which was being pressed up at the time by Warners from the now infamous safety copy of the Rockfield mixes that Tek had spirited out of the studio before Sire shut off their recording funds. Tek knew fellow Ann Arbor residents Ron and Scott Asheton who had played guitar and drums respectively in the Stooges, and he enlisted their help. Scott failed to show up for "training camp" to rehearse, so former MC5 drummer Dennis Thompson was drafted at the last minute. With former Birdmen Warwick Gilbert on bass and Pip Hoyle playing keyboards for some gigs, Tek and Younger launched the New Race tour in April and May of 1981, playing Brisbane, Sydney, Canberra and Adelaide plus several other southeastern Australian venues -- a total of about 16 shows. Many of these were recorded, and a live album from the tour called The First And The Last was released in 1982 (on Trafalgar?), and subsequently reissued on Bigtime in the mid 80s. In addition, there’s a great version of "Crying Sun" with "Gotta Keep Movin’" as the flip released as the second single ever on Citadel around 1984. The A side is a much different arrangement from the Birdman version with real loud guitars replacing the keyboard orientation of the original.

In the 1990s the French label Revenge released two more New Race CDs from tapes provided by Ron Asheton; these are The First To Pay and The Second Wave. Unlike the first New Race CD, these last two were not cleaned up much with post-production studio work and while they may be a more accurate reflection of what a sound board tape would have been like than The First And The Last, they aren’t anywhere near as powerful. The songs on all these recordings are a mix of Radio Birdman and Visitors songs, with a few covers and a couple of new originals tossed in for seasoning. Finally, there’s another single on Revenge with "Hail Columbia" and "Descent Into The Maelstrom".

After this, Tek returned to the US and disappeared from the music scene for a long time. The late 80s saw a worldwide surge of interest in Australian bands and a huge outpouring of bands influenced by Radio Birdman, but other than Rob Younger’s New Christs and the various bands that Chris Masuak played in, there was little to be heard from the former Birdman members, and least of all from Deniz Tek. A single of two demos ("100 Fools"/"Alien Skies") was released by Citadel as a Tek solo single ("Alien Skies" was recorded at Rockfield during the Living Eyes sessions, while "100 Fools" was recorded in Houston in January of 1981), but this was pretty much it. Tek had gone into the military, and become a doctor, and it seemed like he had settled down to a respectable lifestyle for good.

In 1989 the first hint that Tek was still out there appeared in the form of an album on Revenge called Orphan Tracks, which includes 10 demos pulled from a variety of sources going back as far as the days of TV Jones. There are some really interesting nuggets for the fan in here though, like the opening version of the Visitors’ track "Miss You Too Much" with Angie Pepper singing, or the rough and ready original TV Jones version of "Monday Morning Gunk". Accompanying this lp was a single with "Destination Void" and "Steel Beach", the latter track not being included with the album.

Sometime in 1993, the postman arrived at my house with a mail order catalog from the Australian record shop Augogo, a place I’ve regularly bought records from for years. In it, with no special mention, was listed the Deniz Tek solo CD called Take It To The Vertical. I had no idea what it might be, but I ordered it right away. And damned if it wasn’t a set of brand new Tek songs, with a band that included former Stooges drummer Scott Asheton and Chris Masuak on guitar. The sound was cleaner than the Birdman had been...maybe closer to the sound on that Angie Pepper single, and it was strange to hear Tek as lead singer since he’d never taken that role in his past bands, but it was definitely a credible return and there were a pile of good tracks on the CD. Tek’s vocals are in the same general style as Mark Sisto or Rob Younger, although perhaps a touch flatter and much more clearly American sounding with almost a country midwest drawl to them in places. The songs are as good as ever, and in fact branch out a bit from the past, with tracks like the soulful "Dead If Looks Could Kill" (featuring Angie Pepper backing vocals) or the surf tones in the remake of "Steel Beach". But I missed the muscle of Tek’s playing from his previous bands, and found myself hoping for more.

It came in 1994. In this year, Tek released another solo CD called Outside. It is a MONSTER. I put this into my CD player expecting the guitar tones of Vertical and instead I got bludgeoned by the awesome crunching power of "Blood From A Stone", one of several tracks on this CD that are as tough as any Birdman recording ever was. The band had changed again, this time featuring Celibate Rifles guitarist Kent Steedman and ex-Survivor and New Christ Jim Dickson on bass, as well as some Pip Hoyle spots on keyboards. These guys power their way through an incredible set, which includes two great songs in the middle in "Condition Black" and "Rough Slide Drag", but it’s the title track that makes the real statement here...an absolute motherfucker of a song that challenges "Descent Into The Maelstrom" as the best thing Tek ever did. Huge, monster chords that build and build into a tidal wave of sound crushing you to the bottom. An incredible song and a great CD. And early copies included a bonus second CD with four more tracks.

It gets better. In November of that year, I walked into a record shop here in town and happened to glance at a pile of gig flyers lying on the floor. What the hell? There’s a flyer for a Deniz Tek gig staring me in the face! In San Diego?!? Incredible! But sure enough, on December 9, I find myself among about 10 other people at the Spirit Club in San Diego watching Deniz Tek playing with a backing band that consists of members of an LA group called the Exploding Fuck Dolls. And although there weren’t many of us there, we all knew WHY we were there. Tek didn’t disappoint; he hammered his guitar through a mix of his newer solo stuff, a batch of Birdman standards (including "Hand Of Law", "Breaks My Heart", "Descent Into The Maelstrom" and "New Race") and one Visitors track, "Brother John". They closed with a tremendous version of "Outside". Of course it would’ve been great to have the band from the CD, but it was great to get to see Tek on any terms.

By now Tek had settled into a new routine, taking a few months off from his medical career each year to play music. In 1995 there was a new CD ep with four tracks called 4-4: The Number Of The Beat, and the band was now called The Deniz Tek Group. (The story on the CD title was that it was supposed to be 444 The Number Of The Beat, making it a triple pun, but the record company screwed up the printing, and despite promises to fix it on subsequent pressings, they never have.) The CD begins with a killer surf instrumental song called "Hondo’s Dog" that features some marvelous Pip Hoyle keyboard bits and crushing drums from Nik Rieth. Next is a high speed workout called "Mesozoic Cave" that feels like a Celibate Rifles track. Then a slower, blues soaked number with some of Kent’s tasty licks riding on top, and finally a cover of the Stooges "Not Right", with Rob Younger guesting on vocals. Another fine effort.

In mid 1996 there was another CD ep, this time the Italian Tour EP ‘96. Three of these songs were to appear on the full length CD Le Bonne Route, which came out later in the year. This ep marked a new direction for Tek; Take It To The Vertical was fairly conservative rock/pop, Outside was a return to Detroit metal styled mayhem, and now with Le Bonne Route the group was becoming adventurous and becoming pretty non-traditional. The songs still have a powerful distorted guitar sound, but the structures of the songs are strange and sometimes disturbing. And the group is acting more as a band with songwriting shared among members. Kent Steedman even takes over vocals on a couple of the tracks, and on "Surf O.T.B." he recalls the earliest days of the Celibate Rifles doing songs like "Tubular Greens" (is it a coincidence that the opening song is called "Tubular Dreams"?).

Le Bonne Route came out in late 1996 and broke all ties with the past. It’s loaded with unusual songs, taking chances left and right. People looking for another Birdman sounding album might be let down; it is certainly something different from that, and it takes a while to break loose all the preconceptions and mental baggage that can get in the way of enjoying it. But eventually, if you give it a chance, you’ll find that Le Bonne Route is a strong album on its own merits, and it’s a bold move to take such a hard turn. It doesn’t always work, but it works often enough. The songs are big, powerful, and loud, and they never go where you expect them to.

Most recently, Citadel has released another 6 track CD ep called Bad Road. The title track is an outtake from Le Bonne Route that’s more of a straight ballad with some acoustic strumming. Same goes for the next track, but "Workingman’s Shoes" is a straight on cruncher. There’s a remake of "Steel Beach" and a driving cut called "1968" that would’ve been at home on Outside, and with good reason, as it was a demo for a song intended for that CD and appeared in a different form on the bonus disk that came with Outside. Another solid effort.

In between all this, of course, have been the Radio Birdman reunion tours of the last two years, which were received with rave reviews from those fortunate enough to see them in Australia. These tours sprang from the results of remixing and reissuing the original Radio Birdman records on CD, an effort that vastly improved their punch and power. The band members found they could work together again, and the years have healed the old wounds and made it fun for them to tour together. A new live lp called Ritualism is out, and it even includes a couple of brand new songs. Recorded in a studio in front of a small crowd of good fans, it shows the band in great form. Like almost all live albums, it doesn’t displace the originals, but provides an interesting and enjoyable second look at the songs. Perhaps a little more energy, perhaps a little less precision, but good fun and better than a pile of bootlegs.

So in short, Deniz Tek is back. His schedule these days leaves him plenty of time for recording with his own group, doing tours with Radio Birdman, and writing new songs. He’s having fun, and we’re getting to hear more music from one of the best and most creative guitar players of the last 25 years.

So let’s turn to the interview...

NFH: First of all can you talk about what’s gone on in your life outside of music since you returned to the US after New Race ended?

Deniz: You know, after Radio Birdman split up I was in several smaller musical projects. First was the Visitors, which was 3 fifths Birdman guys. After that I lived in Detroit for a year. During that year I did some guest spots with friends bands, like DAM and Sonics Rendezvous. Went back to Australia, did the Angie Pepper Band , and New Race. By 1980 everyone we knew was in a band, regardless of aptitude or motivation. It was in fashion, to be in one of a thousand new bands. Most were uninspiring and short lived, although a few good ones carried on. I wasn't much interested in the scene, felt we had passed the torch, and had other things I wanted to do.

NFH: Most people who follow your career are aware that you were in the air force in a medical capacity...you were in the Philippines for part of that time, is that right? When did you finish with the service?

Deniz: In '81 I came back to the States, joined the Navy, got certified in Aviation Medicine, went to flight school in Pensacola Florida. I had it in my mind to go for astronaut training, but to do that I would have had to go back to school first for an engineering degree in addition to my MD, and I didn't feel that I had the time to do that. So I became a flight surgeon. Not all squadron docs fly operational missions, but I was one that did.

After flight school I was assigned to a Marine air group based in Kaneohe, Hawaii. I was in a helicopter squadron first, later went to a jet squadron flying F4 Phantoms. First we had the J model, which is the hard wing version. Those are fast. Later we got the S model with leading edge slats. Spent lots of time aboard ship, which I liked. We went to the Persian Gulf, Somalia, Okinawa, all over the far east really; and spent a fair bit of time in the Philippines at Subic Bay and Cubi Point. It used to be a great place for sailors and Marines, but the bases are closed now. Played a bit of guitar with a pick up band called Dust and the Rotorheads, for beers in Olongapo. That’s a town outside the gate at Subic, actually an island in a river, which is called Shit River, and the town had over 2000 bars in one square mile. We just played covers of old rock and roll songs the drunken sailors liked, and jammed. We had patches certifying "50 Missions Over Shit River". Once, a Chinese underworld boss there tried to buy Angie. That's another story. Anyway Dust Peterson, a Cobra pilot from that band, later played bass on the Vertical album. He's out of the Marines now flying Lear jets for some company in Chicago.

NFH: How did you end up in Montana...you started in Michigan and you lived in Coronado down this way for a while, didn’t you? I thought I had understood that Angie Pepper and you were married; is this accurate?

Deniz: After all of that, I went back to San Diego while still in the Navy and did a residency in emergency medicine, which is my specialty now. I lived in Coronado and worked 90 hour weeks at Balboa, and did trauma up at UCSD. After that I did one more tour of duty with the Marines, going to Norway way up above the arctic circle. It totally destroyed any desire I may have had to go camping or sleep outside later in life. Also went down to Haiti. There's a song about that called "Dozen on Ice". Got out of the military at the end of '89. Got a job in Montana, where I am now. I like it because of the geography and lack of people. I am an emergency physician, or as some people call us, an "ER Doc". I work about 9 months of the year and the other 3 months I'm on tour or recording. I usually go to Australia once or twice, and Europe once a year for shows.

My family includes my wife Angie Pepper and 2 kids, Max who is a fourth grader and a teenage daughter Hana who is a dedicated figure skater. Both do well in school, so far. Max plays drums.

NFH: Do people you spend time with in Montana know that you have this alter ego as a legendary rock and roll hero all over the world?

Deniz: People around here don't know much about the rock stuff. They know I go off somewheres and play, but I'm sure they equate it with their brother who does weddings and the like. The neighbors, even though the houses are far apart, must be aware of the unholy racket that comes from my basement a couple of times a week.

NFH: Between the end of the New Race tour and the Take It To The Vertical CD, the only musical activity of yours I know of is the material on the Orphan Tracks lp. How did you get hooked up with the Revenge label? Some of the tracks were recorded in Houston...how did that come about? The credits say when the TV Jones tracks were recorded, but it doesn’t say anything about the others...can you fill in the details?

Deniz: Orphan Tracks is a collection of old demos and rejected stuff I had on cassettes in a desk drawer. These French guys Bernard and Jean-Marc came to my house and bought the tapes, paid well for 'em too. Ron Asheton had been dealing with Revenge, and he told them where to find me. I didn't think anything of it at the time. I wasn't going to play anymore, you know? Wrong. Now I wish I hadn't let that inferior stuff out, but of course it's too late to do anything about it. Hopefully you learn from those kind of mistakes.

In late '81 when we were in Pensacola, Mort our old Radio Birdman sound guy and roadie invited us to come visit and see the studio in Houston where he was working. It's about a days drive. Anyway we happened to turn on the machine and did a few demos with some local guys that were there. Some of those demos got on that Orphan Tracks record. Some of those songs would have been on the Trafalgar Angie Pepper album if it hadn't had the plug pulled on it before it was finished. That was gonna be a great album, and it is a shame that it never came out. Mort whose real name is Andy Bradley, now is chief engineer and co-owner of Sugar Hill Studios in Houston, where Doug Sahm, 13th Floor Elevators, Roy Head, Archie Bell and the Drells, ZZ Top etc. recorded in the old days. It's full of history. They have fake palm trees in there which were installed at the request of Freddie Fender. It's a cool place in a tough neighborhood. One more thing about it, Huey Meaux "the Crazed Cajun" lives upstairs. He regularly comes down into the studio and listens to what you're doing, and shakes his head and says "you boys need to record in mono." Mort regularly gets nominated for Grammies and is, I guess, a big shot in the recording world. Also he is a great guy. I worked with him later on the Hitmen's last album Moronic Inferno in 1990, and on the Take it Vertical album I did in '92 which he coproduced.

NFH: Take It To The Vertical has to be regarded as you first significant foray back into the music scene since the New Race days…what was the motivation for coming back at that point in time? How did the ideas, songs and personnel for doing that come together? Were you happy with the results, both from the artistic side of things and also from how it was received by the record-buying public? How did it come to be recorded in Texas (or was it just mixed there?)

Deniz: It (Take It To The Vertical) was my first true solo effort. I felt like getting back into playing guitar, because I wasn't flying planes anymore, and I had the space for it again. Seems like you have to have a right brain activity, of some kind, for balance. So music or flying, and now it was time for music again. Plus I had helped Chris Masuak out with Inferno, and that reminded me of how much fun it can be to record. So, being motivated to record, I came up with a bunch of songs, that I demo'd in my house on a Tascam 8 track, and sent tapes to guys along with an invitation to play. I knew and had always liked Scott Asheton, both personally and as a solid rock drummer. Dust was an old squadron mate. They were selected based on friendship. I paid their way, even Chris' fare from Australia, and gave them session fees. We got Grady Gaines, Little Richards' old tenor sax player from the Upsetters to do sax bits. He's the guy in the white suit who jumps up on Little Richard’s piano to blow his sax solo in "The Girl Cant Help It", you know? He's about 65 now. I financed the whole thing, without a recording contract, and Red Eye Records picked up the finished masters. We booked into Sugar Hill for 2 weeks, and recorded. We wanted to use clean guitar tones through old Fender amps. It was an attempt to buck the current fashion, which was super saturated highly preamped guitar sounds. It did sound different, and while many people liked it, some couldn't get their mind around those clean tones in the era of Mudhoney, HuskerDu etc. I was very happy with it. It has sold many more than any of the other solo stuff which came along later. It is still selling in Europe.

I went back to a more saturated guitar sound with the next record, while Chris Masuak has stayed with the clean fender sound in his band the Juke Savages.

The Vertical band toured Australia for six weeks, had a great time playing live, then split up for various reasons, but mainly because I ran out of money to fund further operations, and was by now deep in debt.

The next lineup lasted for three years, 2 albums and 3 eps, and millions of miles touring.

NFH: Outside strikes me as a major shift…while Take It To The Vertical feels very mellow in a lot of parts, Outside seems more like it’s a return to the Birdman kind of full scale attack. Was that consciously done? I personally felt that Outside was a fabulous CD…a worthy successor to the Birdman legacy for sure. Did you get that sort of reaction from other people? How did you manage to pull together such an all-star band for that CD? I guess you might have known Jim Dickson from your first time in Australia (he played with the Survivors around that time, right?), but Kent Steedman and Nik Rieth you must have gotten to know at some point later in time…how did you end up having them play in your band? The Outside CD was recorded in Australia, right? I assume that time was pretty limited, so how did the various players get up to speed on all the songs? Did you send them demos to learn from? Judging from the photos in the booklet, it looks like they might have gone to Montana to rehearse…true?

Deniz: Jim Dickson I knew from old days. Kent and Nik were in the Celibate Rifles who I knew about but had never met. John Foy the head of RedEye suggested them, and it turned out they were keen on doing it. It was a good choice of band guys but hardly what I would call "all star". For the "Outside" album they were sent demo tapes, and we actually first met in the studio. We rehearsed hard for a week, then spent 2 weeks recording at Electric Avenue in Sydney with Phil Punch, then spent a week mixing. While we were recording we did a few shows also. The sound of the album follows from the makeup of the band. We didn't self consciously try for a particular sound, just got what works live. We recorded essentially live in the studio, so that’s why it was recorded loud. I used the same Marshall Mark 2 amp head I had in Radio Birdman, preamped with a Hughes and Kettner Tubeman. I hardly did any guitar overdubs, most of my solos being done at the time the rhythm track was done. Kent overdubbed all his solos. The title track was done in one take, the bass amp blowing up at the very end of the song, so we were done for that night. Vocals, of course were done later. We had Pip come in and play some keyboards. Angie does some backing vocals, but less than on Vertical. Masuak plays a slide bit on a track. During mixing we routed the guitars through old Pultec tube limiters, mixed down to a Studer 1 inch stereo machine, and mastered the whole thing through a 60's vintage Fairchild compressor. That's why it kind of breathes in and out.

Fans seemed to like it, although not especially more so than Vertical.

Those sleeve photos were taken in the Snowy Mountains in Australia, on a snow covered hillside although to me it looks like a beach in some of the shots. I particularly disliked the cover, although the inside shots look OK.

NFH: When you toured through San Diego after Outside came out, you were backed by members of the LA band The Exploding Fuck Dolls, right? How did that come about…where do you know those guys from and how did you arrange that tour? Where else did you play? Was it all as disappointing as San Diego was? I imagine it must be odd to play a show like in San Diego where there are only about 10 people there, but every one of them is a rabid fan.

Deniz: These guys in LA, identical twins Art and Steve Godoy, are big Radio Birdman fans. They had sent mail in the past, and had been in Australia. They used to be internationally famous skateboard champions. When they got too old to skate at the top level (in their 20s) they started their own punk band. They are also highly regarded as tattoo artists, and get money to live that way. So anyway when I was waiting for a plane to go to Australia at LAX they came by the airport to meet me and we got to talking, and eventually I saw them play when I was in San Diego several months later, and got up to do a couple of songs. That started it. Then they organized some gigs in and around LA / SD where they played as my backing band. It was great fun. I don't recall being disappointed in San Diego, even though as you say there was about 10 people there. 10 people or 30,000 such as at the Big Day Out in Australia, it's all the same if you play with your head down and your eyes closed.

NFH: How did the idea of remixing and reissuing the Birdman records come about? Did all the band members have a heavy involvement in that, or was it mostly you and Rob? Can you talk a little about that whole experience…where you did it, how long it took, what did you like best about the results, and were there any parts of it that didn’t come out as good as you had hoped?

Deniz: PolyGram wanted to reissue the old Radio Birdman stuff. We said, whoa. This time it ain't gonna happen unless we get to be involved in the mastering. The box set mastering job kind of sucked, we were really disappointed in it sonically. So Radios Appear got re-sequenced to include the best of both prior versions, and was remastered by Don Bartley at EMI who is the best mastering engineer in Australia, with Rob helping. So that one was cool. Next, Living Eyes. We were unhappy with the mix; it had never really had a proper mixing job done, there's a whole ‘nother story behind that, but the previous versions were taken off a quarter inch 7.5 i.p.s. safety copy which is far from ideal. So amazingly all the 24 track 2 inch tapes were found in the cellars at Rockfield which is in the Welsh countryside, and we had 'em couriered down to Sydney, 6 or 7 boxes of 'em..

NFH: I’ve heard that the "Living Eyes" multi-track tapes were on the point of disintegrating from years of storage…is that true? What kinds of things did you have to do to be able to work with them? I’m almost surprised that you could find a studio that had a tape machine that would handle tapes from back then, since formats and biases of tapes have changed a lot in the intervening years. Maybe it’s because I play drums, but it’s the improvement in the drum sound that I hear most when I listen to the remixes…they seem real sharp and live compared to a somewhat muffled feel on the original. Was there a lot of attention paid to that? What other aspects of the recording did you pay special care to during the re-mix?

Deniz: EMI engineers had to hand restore them inch by inch. They were all moldy and rotting. So the transfers got done, and we assembled all the band except Ron for mixing. I think everyone hung in there for at least the first two days, then it was just mostly me and Rob for the rest of the week. Chris dropped by occasionally to lend an ear and the benefit of his experience as a producer when he had time.

I had always hated the previous drum sound, it was too boxy. So, yes, it was a priority. Fortunately we were able to sharpen it up quite a bit using studio magic to add sparkle. Some of the snare sounds were so bad we had to use the original hit to trigger a good sounding snare sample. You do what you have to do, but we tried not to change the original ideas too much, since they were valid at the time. We didn't try to make it sound "modern". Just tried to improve the basic sound quality wherever possible. Now it sounds much like we heard it through the studio monitors when we recorded it in the first place.

NFH: In Vivien Johnson’s book, she paints a picture in which misunderstandings about the original mixing of Living Eyes was a significant contributor to the breakup of the Birdmen, especially the mix of "Crying Sun". Was there an attempt made to correct those sorts of things, or has the passage of time made people forget what it was that they were expecting from the original mix anyway?

Deniz: During the Rockfield sessions the band already had disintegrated internally, and if it wasn't the "Crying Sun mix" episode, it would have been something else people got pissed off with. The mix didn't cause anything, rather, the reaction to it was a symptom of a deeper pathology. The guys in the band who said negative and untruthful things about me in the book have all recanted and apologized to me but of course it's too late when the bloody thing's in print. I put it down to immaturity in some cases and mental illness in others. The important thing is what's happening now, which is that we can be friends and work productively together again.

Age has it's advantages and one of them is having learned from many mistakes.

NFH: What brought about the decision to reunite and tour again? Were all the other ex-Birdmen still playing at the time, or were there a lot of cobwebs to shake off? Can you talk a little about what each of the ex members has been up to? I’m obviously pretty aware of what Rob and Chris have done, but I know nothing about Warwick, Pip, or Ron. Had they been playing in other bands, or doing things on their own at all? What about what they’ve been doing with their lives otherwise?

Deniz: It was the idea of Ken West who is the organizer of the Big Day Out festival tour in Australia. He wanted us to reform to be on the tour. Normally this idea would have been met by laughter but it happened to hit us at just the right time. We had done the remix. All in the same room at the same time without bloodshed. Actually had fun working together on Radio Birdman music again. So we felt like we could get into it. Also I had just seen Ron when my solo band was touring in Europe, and invited him up to play a couple of songs in Paris. And Rob had gotten up to sing with us a few times in Australia, and had come in on a recording session. Chris and Pip have been on my records and at shows recently. So it wasn't much of a leap of faith, really. Several seemingly unrelated events flowed to a convergence that resulted in the band getting back together.

All of us had been playing except Ron. Pip was working mostly on my stuff musically, as well as doing solo keyboard arrangements, and has a job as a hospital administrator. Chris is going to naturopathy school and still leads the Juke Savages, which does Hendrix - flavored blues rock. Rob works in the public service and has the New Christs. Warwick had been in the Hitmen, then the Manifestations with Mark Sisto, and currently is the guitar player in a surf/instrumental outfit called the Raouls, with the multitalented Chris Masuak on drums and Steve King on bass. They do heaps of cool stuff including the James Bond theme and songs by the Shadows, Dick Dale, Atlantics, and so on. He is also a director of animation for Disney. Ron is a professional writer in England, hadn't played at all, started gearing up for the reunification about 6 months prior to the event. Everyone in the band has kids. No one in the band is single except Warwick. Warwick has the most fun on tour.

NFH: The response to many other re-unions of legendary old bands have been received with a high degree of skepticism and sometimes flat out hostility (like the Pistols). Were you and your bandmates worried about that when you decided to tour again? Most of the responses I’ve heard to your tours are overwhelmingly positive, but my sources are all big fans, so I don’t really hear from places where a negative word is likely to occur. What did the Aussie rock press have to say? I’ve seen some pretty scathing stuff that was written about the New Race tour in places like that Inner City Sound book...was there anything like that?

Deniz: We were not worried about being criticized for getting back together although we weren't sure we could light the fire again. We were willing to put all the chips on the table and throw the dice. We fully expected to be trashed by the press. Who cares? If we were concerned about accuracy in media we'd have slit our throats years ago. And the so called Birdman Legend, we expected that to be trashed also. But that would have been fine with us. That’s just a story, and means nothing compared to the reality of the band on stage now. If the band doesn't meet the standards of some overhyped story in peoples heads, the problem is with the story. Let's face it, very few people in the audience would have actually seen the band before. We would prefer to erase the hype and start writing on a clean page. Of course you can't do that.

The band played just fine, by the way. 2 out of 3 gigs were up to our own standards, and that's a better average than we had in the old days. There was the occasional disaster. We take risks. When you always want to go to the edge, sometimes you go over. People get hurt. But part of the appeal, I think, for us as well as our listeners, is the unpredictability. Radio Birdman was on tour again, it was just like we picked up where we left off. It was the same.

Our shows are rituals in every sense, and people need that in their lives these days and don't get it.

As it turned out, the so called legend is not only intact, but enhanced. Negativity never arose to any significant degree. I can recall one slightly bitchy gig review in the conservative paper The Sydney Morning Herald, what would you expect.. the guy said we were "derivative", (of what? ourselves, I suppose.) And "Who Magazine" (which is the Australian "People") simply rewrote the SMH review. That was 2 lukewarm out of hundreds of rave articles. We were delighted with the press response, as we didn't expect it to be as terrific as it was.

Did Clinton Walker write that Inner City Sounds book? (As a matter of fact, yes...what a good guess - Steve) I don’t have a copy. I can tell you that he has always been biased against us and for the Saints. To the point of gross journalistic dishonesty. There were a few people around who were too emotionally limited to be able to enjoy both bands, like some guys when I was a teenager could only like the Stones or the Beatles but not both, or you could wear only Levi's or Wrangler's but not both. Anyway, he hasn't changed...a pitiful little fellow. But fortunately, there aren't many of his type around.

NFH: I’ve never seen you talk much about Radio Birdman’s relationship to the Saints in the overall scheme of things. Were you much aware of the Saints in the late 70s? I always thought they were another truly great band, and in all honesty I’d have to say that in the late 70s I probably preferred them to the Birdmen because I really was into that stripped down punk sound. In retrospect I find that the Birdman style is more lasting, but I still think the Saints were great, and these days you don’t see them getting much credit for being a key band anymore. Do you get that sense? Can you comment on it and on the Saints in general? I really think it’s a drag the way there’s this feud between Kuepper and Bailey, and I’m really happy to see that this is not the case for you guys.

Deniz: I don't know if the Saints are given enough credit because I haven't read much about the history of Australian punk. I loved the Saints sound when I first heard them. They were going in Brisbane for a couple of years before they moved to Sydney, basically playing at house parties. The other great band that migrated down to Sydney from Brisbane in 1977 was the Survivors with Jim Dickson. When they arrived in Sydney, we helped the Saints find a practice room, get gigs. We had them play at our Funhouse, and had 'em on our bill at some town hall gigs. We were delighted to have them around, going "all right! at last a good band that plays with a bit of energy" and all that. We wanted to be mates with them. But they were not very friendly, I think they were kind of defensive and paranoid...which prevented us from really becoming good mates. That and the singer (Chris Bailey) being an obnoxious Irish drunk that liked to beat people up when his blood alcohol level crosses a threshold. The guy is just pathetic at times...I don't keep up with what he is doing, but I love Ed Kuepper’s solo stuff. We did a gig with Ed a while back. Had a great time. That was up in Moolloolaba, Queensland on the "Outside" tour. They spelled Ed's name wrong on the marquee outside the gig and he spat the dummy...wasn't going on unless they fixed it. It must happen to him all the time, and I suppose it drives him crazy. I really like Ed, though, and admire his work greatly.

One last Saints side note, did you know that Ivor Hay was the first drummer in the Angie Pepper Band?

NFH: Are you happy with the Ritualism CD? I’m not normally a huge fan of live albums, but I thought this came out better than most...the playing is pretty sharp for the most part, and it’s certainly a fabulous packaging job. It’s a little odd having so little crowd noise between tracks...I guess that’s the tradeoff when you record a live album in a studio...you get a good sound but an unusual ambiance. I felt that "Smith and Wesson" stands out as well as "What Gives?" and "New Race", and the only songs that I had any disappointment with were "TV Eye" (mainly because I always liked the way Ron Keely switched to half-timing his rides on the high hat during the quiet part in the middle on the original and went full on in the rest of the song, and in this version he half times most of the song), and "Aloha Steve and Danno", which ties "Descent Into The Maelstrom" as my favorite Birdman song largely on the strength of that one note guitar solo that starts the song and pops up a couple other places, and you’ve changed the attack on it in the live arrangement. What’s your reaction to these comments, and what are the positives and negatives as you see ‘em?

Deniz: Ritualism: a pretty good effort for one afternoon's work. We just set up in the studio with about 30 spectators and plowed through the set. There were a couple of new songs not on previous records. Some reviewers didn't like the small crowd noise. But we played hundreds of these shows in small clubs with 30 people. It's an accurate representation of the majority of the band’s lifespan. The huge crowds were only in the latter half of '77, and now. I agree with you that Aloha could've been done better. But the problem is the drumming, in my mind. As far as solos go, you'd have to kill me before I'd play the same solo again and again over the years. What makes rock work is the interplay at the given moment and allowing new things to happen, even though it may not be what you or the audience is expecting...or even wanting. That's exactly what I love about that version of TV Eye. We haven't played it the same twice on the road, and what you got on Ritualism is that day's TV Eye complete with ad libbed vocals. We never expected it to mutate into Lookin At You or anything. You have to be listening to each other, you have to have some eye contact and some telepathy. What Gives was pretty good, one of my favorite bits is when I inadvertently stomped on my tremelo switch when I wanted the channel switch...Who was it that said: "there are no wrong notes, only unintended ones?" I like the idea of an element of randomness in music. As far as the song New Race goes, I quite like the Silverchair version, although it's slower than ours. The one on Ritualism has a great vocal and the drummer redeems himself creditably on that track.

Radio Birdman always needed a live album. Now we've got the "X" in the box. Time to move on.

Anyway once an album comes out I rarely listen to it any more. There's always more pressing stuff going on by then.

NFH: Your new CD "Le Bonne Route" is quite a change of pace. It sounds in some ways like a slightly more conservative approach to some of the ideas Kent Steedman has had in his Crent incarnations. Did you guys work together on a lot of this stuff? How has it been received, especially among your fans? With something that’s a big departure like this I would imagine that there are parts that you feel particularly happy with and some that maybe didn’t translate as you intended...are there any examples of each that you can give?

Deniz: The approach to Le Bonne Route was somewhat different. This was the first album to evolve out of the group, rather than me writing and arranging alone. We were going back and forth to Europe, and Nik and Jim were spending time here on the way to rehearse and write, and enjoy the area. Later on Kent stayed here for about 2 months, and I played him the stuff we had demo'd and he added in his 2 cents worth, and Kent and I also cowrote a couple of things from scratch. So the whole group was living at my house at various times. I have a crude studio in my basement with a drum kit practice PA, tape machine etc. Some of the songs were written from free jams where we would be playing and just let the tape run, such as VMO, and Saucer Pilot Blues. Two songs, Salted Leeches and Clear Itself, were songs from my own previous backlog. Altogether it was much more of a group effort than previous albums which I had almost fully written on my own. Dave Weyer, who is somewhat of a legendary figure, recorded it in full digital format on Mac Pro Tools and Digisound; that's quite a departure for us old fashioned "16 track 1 inch" analog types. Dave used to be Jimi Hendrix's sidekick and amp builder in the 60's, he actually makes his own "Weyer Power" tubes and he continues to custom build amps for Neil Young and other guitar luminaries...luckily for us, maybe not so lucky for him, his studio is just down the road from my house. He cleverly routes the signals through self designed tube gear so it doesn't come out brittle sounding like many digital recordings.

For your French speaking readers, we know the gender of the title is wrong.

I guess it has been received pretty well, I've heard no major complaints. People I've talked to seem to like the quirkier stuff best, like Rabbit's Foot. I guess there's no telling what is going to go over. Even if you wanted to, you cant predict fashions, you cant jump aboard trends either because once you get something out it's inevitably going to be too late. The industry spotlight will have moved on. So the best is to play what you feel at the time. There is no such thing as market timing in rock, at least not at our subterranean level. Thank God for that. We can exist at an obscure lower level, the major part of the music business blissfully unaware, and do exactly what we want as long as we can scrounge up the money somewhere to do it. I guess that's why we'll be keeping our day jobs.